SPIKE: How do relate to punk as a queer and where do you see queer in the context of punk?

BILITO: I think queer punk is a reaction to tired mainstream gay culture. And I'm referring to the music in particular. When I first came out, this was one thing that really disappointed me. I wanted something different than house and techno. I wanted to connect with other guys who liked angry guitar music (punk included). I think that queers have always added to the punk movement. Unfortunately, not much has happened the other way around. So that's what queer punk is about to me: not alienating itself from other punks, but instead a kind of cross-pollination of ideas, gay, straight, whatever. But if it doesn't rock, forget it.

RYAN: I think there's always been something sort of queer about punk. I guess bands like us are a natural product of that. I kind of enjoy being this baby that queer and punk got together and had out of wedlock.

I can remember, when I first came out, feeling like a novelty item: the punk rock fag (which is why I wrote that song). Can you imagine me hanging out in some WeHo bar? Well, I did! It didn't make a whole fuck of a lot of sense, but when I first came out, I thought that's what I should do. Well, it didn't last, of course. I may have been a curiosity to those boys, but they were just plain plastic to me.

SPIKE:I was first exposed to punk in 1977 and was attracted to it because of it's apparent sincerity and D.I.Y. ethic. The Clash sang with brutal honesty about corruption, corporate control, alienation, drugs, greed and fighting the system. How did you discover punk and what does it mean to you?

B: I was just another kid in the mosh pit in high school and college. I was a grunge kid. We got drunk and moshed and did stupid shit. I was drunk alot, and even shared a keg with Mark Arm once! But slamming was an amazing release of tension, being in the pit, and it gave me that sense of comradery with other guys that I really needed. I don't regret any of it. That's what I needed at 20 years old. Then a friend and I discovered Fugazi. And I said, what's this? We studied the lyrics and got to know what they were all about. "Styrofoam," "Waiting Room," "Bulldog Front," all these songs spoke to me politically and socially. "Suggestion" could be about being queer just as much as being a woman. It's all about judging people by their bodies.

R: Funny enough, the Clash were MY introduction to punk (long after they'd broken up), although I was a little puzzled at first... Combat Rock was the first Clash record I bought and it wasn't what I expected from a "punk" band. Of course, as I delved deeper, I would find the more guitar-driven stuff that I expected from the Clash. Anyway, that was when I was 15/16. I didn't really have much exposure to punk rock as I grew up in a VERY rural part of Illinois. However, I started a band towards the end of high school and the bassplayer started exposing me to Chicago punk bands like Screeching Weasel, who are still one of my favorite bands ever. This same guy also played Pansy Division for me and they totally blew me away. Once I moved to LA for college, I was able to totally immerse myself in bands that I never knew existed just a few years before.

What does punk mean to me? It's a living, breathing idea. It's a kid that picks up drumsticks and figures out how the hell to play 8th notes on the hi-hat while playing half notes on the snare drum. And he loves it not because he dreams of being rich and famous, but because it feels good. It's the kid who decides to make his own Anti-Flag tshirt with a sharpie because he lives in a smalltown and can't get one of their shirts, but they're still his favorite band. It's not a fashion statement or just a certain type of music. That's why it doesn't die, I think. Fashions and trends and genres die - ideas live on.

SPIKE: What is your take on alcohol, drugs and the straight-edge issue?

B: I had a straight-edge friend in high school and I always respected him for it. If that's what works for you, then cool. Ryan was straight edge before I knew him. If not drinking or taking drugs makes you play or dance or scream louder, then of course I'm for it. Me: I drink pretty regularly and smoke pot like the next guy.

R: Yep, I was straight-edge at one time and I don't regret it at all. That said, I think I should explain how I came to be straight-edge and how it ended. I didn't so much DECIDE to be straight-edge as I found out it's what I WAS. When I got to college, I wasn't into drinking or drugs. People started to say, "Oh, you're straight-edge?" And I was like, "Yeah, I guess I am." Then, I found my way to Minor Threat and heard "Straight Edge" and "Out of Step" and thought,"OH, this is what people are talking about. OK. Cool. I have anthems." But, for me, it was never about only hanging out with straight-edge kids or only listening to certain bands or drawing Xs on the back of my hands. It was just a way that I'd chosen to live my life. Eventually, I realized that it was just another religion. Some other set of rules made up by someone else that kept me from making my own decision. I decided that I could drink a beer if wanted to and that I didn't need to wear this label around and adhere to a set of rules made up by someone else.

So, now, I drink. I don't do any thing else, substance-wise. I've just never been interested.

SPIKE: Queers have taken back terms such as queer, fag & dyke. Do you believe this way of redefining language a positive step in the struggle for liberation?

B: I think it's a positive step, sure. Faggot.

R: I guess I'm not sure if it changes anything or not. However, I don't want anyone - queer, straight, or otherwise - to tell me what words I can or can't use, especially in defining myself. Then we're back to the same bullshit that we're trying to get away from.

SPIKE: Are you aware of the controversy surrounding Act-Up San Francisco and their belief that HIV does not cause AIDS? Where do you stand on this issue?

B: Personally, I don't know enough about this virus to be absolute in my opinion either way. But I'm not about to start acting like HIV is not a potential threat to my or my partner's health.

R: I agree. I've got no absolute facts about HIV, but I'm not about to start running around acting like HIV isn't dangerous and I think it's completely irresponsible for anyone to suggest such a thing based on the suspicion that drug companies are taking advantage of people with HIV/AIDS. OF COURSE drug companies are taking advantage of people with HIV/AIDS. They're also taking advantage of people with cancer! Still, it doesn't follow that HIV doesn't cause AIDS.

There's a site from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases that deals with this debate and has a lot of strong evidence to show that HIV and AIDS are strongly linked: http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/evidhiv.htm

SPIKE: There is much debate in queer circles regarding queer stance on the People Of Color issue. Do you view the fight for queer liberation as part of a greater fight for liberation of oppressed people or as a separate issue in itself? Numerous Queeruption events have been dogged by the accusation that Queeruption has not addressed the POC issue therefore invalidating the positive work accomplished. Do you feel queers must be more involved in political issues such as anti-racism and anti-war efforts and how do you define your politics as a queer punk?

R: We played Queeruption SF last year. We were brought into the event by a person of color and we played on a bill with the DeepDickcollective. So, our experience with Queeruption, limited as it may be, didn't seem all that "colorless" for lack of a better term. However, I'm sure that I don't know the whole story and, as with just about any organization, there could be more inclusion.

B: I'm going out on a limb and saying that the war in Afghanistan is not a racist war. It is about money. Fighting terrorism is an excuse. If we didn't have some serious financial interest in the Middle East, LIKE BUILDING A HUGE FUCKING PIPELINE ACROSS THEIR COUNTRY we would not be there. If we were interested in only helping out the 'white folks' around the world, like some may say, then why didn't we get involved earlier in the war in Bosnia? Because there was nothing of interest to us, financially. I don't think I'm saying anything shocking or new in this. The color issue is important, sure. But I really prefer to think in larger terms, on a global scale. We have to realize that it not about race, or countries, or religion-states. We are all one. That's why I despise patriotism and the American flags on every car and SUV. As if we suffer more! As if we are more human! I saw a great sign a few weeks back that said: "Recognize that the other person is you." To me, that sums up the issue of race and religion, and queer rights.

R: Bil, you rule.

SPIKE: In both L.A. and San Francisco the queer indie/punk scene is thriving. Where do you think these scenes are headed and which direction do you think they should take?

B: Ryan and I started a label this year called Spitshine Records, because we've seen a great thing happen, spontaneously and simultaneously here in little areas across this giant city of Los Angeles. Queer bands are sprouting up everywhere. Venice, East LA, Koreatown, Downtown, Silver Lake, even Van Nuys! And we want to document it. While we are a band doing our thing, we also want to help out other bands, get them heard. We want to give bands the chance that they didn't have 10 years ago, that is to record and sell their records to a wider audience. We are serious about it and encourage bands to contact us.

R: Bilito pretty much said it all there.

SPIKE: What are your views on polyamory versus monogamy?

B: I am still forming my opinion on this one. I think monogamy is really, REALLY difficult for men. And the idea of monogamy is modeled after straight relationships, which don't seem to be working like they used to. For me, I think a strong relationship between any two individuals is one that recognizes the sexual needs in another person. It's not about ownership. This opinion may change later, but that's where I'm at now.

R: I think people have to do what works for them. Like Bil said, I don't think men (and maybe women as well, I don't have as much experience!) are very good with monogamy. It's not too natural. However, if it works for somebody, great. If it doesn't, that's fine too. Honesty is what really matters. A friend of mine once told me that he doesn't think being in a relationship with someone needs to include limiting that person's life experiences. I think that definitely applies here.

SPIKE: As a queer (punk), do you feel more queer spaces are needed in a predominantly straight society? Are you comfortable socializing in straight spaces? Separatism has gained popularity in some circles - is this a solution or part of the problem?

R: For me, it's less about separatism and more about creating safe spaces. Places where people can feel comfortable and have fun. So in that sense, yes, I would like to see more queer spaces. On the other hand, I have a real issue with the whole Michigan's Womyn's Music Festival and all the controversy surrounding it. People were screaming that they weren't letting trans-women in and I thought, "You're surprised? Hell, they started out excluding 49% of the population, why would they stop there?" Again, I believe in safe spaces, but I don't believe that you can blindly exclude people based on gender or anything else and expect good results.

B: I would like more straight kids to come to our shows, that would be really great. I don't have a problem socializing with straight folks. Many of my greatest friends are straight.

SPIKE: Where would you like to go with Best Revenge? What are your plans for the future?

B: World Domination 2002! We are excited about a new lineup and working on new songs and at least a partial recording later this year. Then maybe another tour, who knows.

R: Like Bil mentioned, we've gone through some lineup switcheroos this year and I think we'll look back on it as a time of evolution. I'm really looking forward to more recording. The songs on Starts With You are mostly songs we've been playing since the beginning. They're a good starting point, but I'm ready for more.

B: Spike, thank you for giving us this opportunity. These are the most thought-provoking questions we've ever been asked.